Page 1 of 14 
 
Washington Women’s Heritage Project records, 1900-2000 
University of Washington Libraries Special Collections 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton 
April 25, 1993 
Cassette 1, Side 2 
 
 
Barbara Wright  00:04 
Side two of April 25, 1993. Olive Carlton. Okay. Now this-- you just showed me the class? 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  00:20 
This was the schoolhouse that I went to.  
 
Barbara Wright  00:22 
It almost looks like a church. 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  00:22 
It is. Well, that's what it does look like, but there was about, oh let's see, three or four different 
grades in the one room. I would imagine about 100 kids. That's that, because they'd be from all 
the neighborhoods, the farmers and all the people living around there. It was just like a village. 
[Inaudible]. Little Gaddesden was the name of the place. 
 
Barbara Wright  00:49 
Was the name of the school, or the town?  
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  00:52 
Little Gaddesden School. 
 
Barbara Wright  00:55 
How, because I'm noticing, like, a lot of concrete around the school, so how was it different than 
say, in this picture? 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  01:07 
Well, of course, this wasn't there. But, I don't know. They're just... A road. This would be the 
road, I would say, if I can remember correctly, as I say, this is quite a long time ago. It stood 
beside this. This is the church. It's a family church, and it's in the same place, and it was the 
school was down this way, okay, I'd say about two blocks, what you'd call two blocks. It was 
nothing there, I mean, just the fields and stuff, and this is where I'd have to walk. These were all 
fields. That's how we got to school and to church. 
 
Page 2 of 14 
 
Barbara Wright  01:52 
You mentioned that this was like a family church. Are you talking about where families went to, 
as opposed to-- 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  01:57 
Where they were buried. Now, we didn't go to here. They had, close to my grandparents place, 
oh, about two mile, they had a little chapel, which in a wor-- well, no, this would be Episcopalian 
Church I would guess. [Inaudible] is the Church of England, and it's the chief church over there. 
So I think that's what that was, now, I could be wrong. But this is where all the burials of all the 
families, and every family seemed to be connected to somebody or other. You know, they were 
all Purtons, or one or two other names, but they were all connected and.. There'd be cousins, 
everybody knew everybody's business. I loved it. That's where I spent about two years. And then 
every year after that, I'd go over and visit. 
 
Barbara Wright  02:56 
You mentioned that, like, you like to sort of curl up in your bedroom and so on. Do you 
remember-- I know, a lot of times, kids will make these little hiding places or make their little, 
like, This is my house to play house in, like, go up into the attic and make their own [?food?]. 
Did you do that at all, or? 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  03:05 
Well, I had my treehouse. My grandfather built me a beautiful treehouse, and I'd go up and play. 
I wasn't anything much for dolls and stuff like that. I liked animals, and playing ball, and stuff 
like that. So I didn't have-- I don't remember-- 
 
Barbara Wright  03:32 
What sort of-- 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  03:33 
Playing tea, you know, like my sister would, she played with dolls and had tea and stuff like that. 
I don't remember doing that. 
 
Barbara Wright  03:44 
What sort of pets did you have? 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  03:46 
Well, with grandparent-- my grandparents, I just had cats. They were just cats, and they were 
kind of working cats, because mice and rats. That's all I had there. 
 
Barbara Wright  03:57 
Okay, where-- 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  03:58 
And then when over in Belfast, the only thing I had was cats. Mother didn't want anything else in 
the house. Destroy your house. 
 
Page 3 of 14 
 
Barbara Wright  04:09 
Okay. Did you, like, play-- you mentioned that you played ball?  
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  04:14 
Yeah.  
 
Barbara Wright  04:14 
What is playing ball? 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  04:16 
Well, almost like baseball. We called it rounders, but it was the same sort of thing as baseball, 
softball. Oh, I tried my hand at-- they had a game called cricket over there. It was a boring game, 
but I tried my hand at that. 
 
Barbara Wright  04:37 
How old were you when you, like, tried this? Like, playing cricket? 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  04:42 
Oh, I was about seven or eight. All the kids played it. I mean, that was an English sport, so it's 
just like us and our baseball. I was there, playing. Only they just went from one part, like this. 
One part to the other.  
 
Barbara Wright  05:00 
Then I take it then you played with a lot of boys, or was it [inaudible]-- 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  05:04 
Yeah, because, unfortunately, we didn't have too many girls where I was. 
 
Barbara Wright  05:09 
Did you consider-- what would you consider yourself, looking back, as sort of a tomboy then? 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  05:15 
That's what they said. I didn't think so, I guess they did. Oh, and I loved to climb trees. If I 
wanted a nice, relaxing time away from the family, I'd go-- they have-- Grandpa had some 
beautiful trees on his estate, and also over on the, what they call common. It belongs to the 
Commonwealth, you know, and they had beautiful woods there, and I'd go there, climb the tallest 
tree, and... 
 
Barbara Wright  05:47 
And you never fell out? 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  05:48 
Nope, never fell down. I [?really?] got a few spankings for it [laughs]. 
 
Barbara Wright  05:55 
Okay. Now, your sister came along, what, approximately-- 
Page 4 of 14 
 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  06:00 
Soon after we got to England, because she was born in 1926. 
 
Barbara Wright  06:10 
What was your role in taking care of her?  
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  06:12 
Never had to.  
 
Barbara Wright  06:13 
Okay. Did you two ever have to share a room ever?  
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  06:18 
Oh... No. I don't remember ever sharing a room. We had to have done though, but I don't 
remember it. Maybe at my grandparents, we did. Yeah, I think we did. Well, I think we all-- as I 
said, it was a bigger room and was divided up, and I think we slept with our parents, and then my 
sister and I, yeah. So you could call that sharing, I guess. 
 
Barbara Wright  06:55 
Okay, but I take it, as you mentioned, that one of the rooms is very big, so is that where you slept 
then, in one of those bigger rooms?  
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  07:03 
Yeah, with-- yeah, [?in this house?]. But then, when we went over to Belfast, we had to have 
shared a room there, because all we had was a kind of apartment, until the house-- until we got a 
house built. 
 
Barbara Wright  07:20 
Why did you go from-- why did the family go from England to Belfast?  
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  07:25 
That's where my dad heard about another firm that needed-- well, he was asked to go over there 
and start building pipe organs, and he went over there. 
 
Barbara Wright  07:36 
How did your mom feel about leaving her family?  
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  07:38 
Well, she didn't mind that so much, because that was just a boat ride over the ocean between 
England and Ireland, and that, I guess, didn't seem so far for her. And she'd go over every year to 
visit her parents. 
 
Barbara Wright  08:00 
Approximately what time of year-- 
 
Page 5 of 14 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  08:03 
Maybe once or twice a year, even. Twice-- I've known her to go twice a year. 
 
Barbara Wright  08:04 
And would there, for instance, if she went, like, during one time of year? Would she go at any 
particular time? 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  08:06 
In the summer mostly. 
 
Barbara Wright  08:09 
How long would she stay? 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  08:11 
About six, six weeks. Six to eight weeks. 
 
Barbara Wright  08:18 
What were Christmases like with the family? 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  08:25 
Now you're talking about one was small, or? 
 
Barbara Wright  08:29 
Yeah, maybe-- yeah, also too, maybe tell me how they changed? 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  08:33 
Alright, when we-- when we had our Christmases here, we had Christmas trees. This was... No, I 
think we had one Christmas before Dad put the electricity in. And I can-- yeah, it was. We were 
there one Christmas without electricity, and we had the powerful lamps and candles, and our 
Christmas tree was all little candles. I've often wondered why there was never any fires. Because 
the trees would be-- Grandpa would always go chop down the Christmas tree, got a big one, and 
there'd be candles all over that tree, and never did go on fire. Oh, it was beautiful, though. 
 
Barbara Wright  09:24 
What other sort of things-- what other sort of things would you put on the tree?  
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  09:28 
I have no idea. I can only remember the candles, but I know there are other ornaments because, 
well, I think Mother took ornaments. Yeah, I know she did, from when we lived in the states, so 
she had all those [?good?] out. So it'd be just like what you see now. You know, little balls, and 
you did a lot of-- well, I know when we lived here that we did popcorn. I remember doing that. I 
don't remember. I don't think we did it there, but that's-- the only real things I can remember are 
those candles. 
 
Barbara Wright  09:28 
What would a Christmas dinner be like, and, yeah, what would be served at Christmas dinner? 
Page 6 of 14 
 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  09:28 
Oh, it'd be huge. Grandma would put on a show. This was my mother's mother. We lived with 
her, not her. We'd have a turkey, ham, what they call plum pudding. And... Just a regular 
Christmas meal. Can't remember everything, but I know the table was loaded. And generally the 
whole family would come. You know, her sons and their children, and their children would 
come, and we'd have a huge table just loaded. 
 
Barbara Wright  10:52 
What sort of-- like when Santa came-- yeah, what-- did you-- did the children believe in Santa?  
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  11:19 
Oh yes. Oh my word, yes. Well, just you hang your stockings at the bottom of the bed, and then 
you find stuff underneath the tree. And that was on Christmas Day. We always did that.  
 
Barbara Wright  11:28 
Now, where did you hang the stockings? 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  11:29 
At the end of the bed?  
 
Barbara Wright  11:31 
Okay. 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  11:31 
Yeah. And they were stuffed every time we got up. 
 
Barbara Wright  11:34 
What would be in the stocking? 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  11:40 
Sometimes for a joke, they put a piece of coal in there [laughs]. You never knew what to-- never 
knew what you were going to get. I remember I got few coal [laughs]. 
 
Barbara Wright  11:57 
Would there be, like, fruit, or there'd be, like, small toys? 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  12:00 
Fruit. 
 
Barbara Wright  12:00 
What kind of fruit?  
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  12:02 
Apples, oranges. That's about it. 
 
Page 7 of 14 
 
Barbara Wright  12:09 
Then you consider that a very big treat? 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  12:10 
Oh, yes. Anything we got in those days was a big treat. You only shot-- you only got it once a 
year, you know, or on your birthdays, maybe you got something. That's when you got your bikes. 
That's when I first got my bike. I got that at Grandma's-- grandparents, first two-wheeler. 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  12:40 
No, you'd get quite a bit. Dolls was quite a thing, but if I got a ball, kind of a baseball-- you 
didn't call it baseball over there, but when I was over here in the States, I'd play that. That's what 
I enjoy most. 
 
Barbara Wright  12:42 
And so-- and like on Christmas, would you only get, like, one gift, or would you get-- 
 
Barbara Wright  12:44 
Oh, okay, that's great that your parents encouraged that.  
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  12:57 
Oh yeah, they never... Mother might have-- she'd think more of me with a doll, you know, and 
I'd always get a doll or something. She'd dress it up too. 
 
Barbara Wright  13:19 
What sort of a doll would it be like? Would it be porcelain-headed, or? 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  13:22 
I did have those, yeah. Mostly, that's what they were, I think, in those days. I had the one that 
was given to me when we first landed in England, was about this high. Was almost as tall as I 
was. I've got a picture of it someplace. It was gorgeous thing, had curls. I can remember that. 
Well, I-- as I said, I've got a picture. I got all kinds of pictures. 
 
Barbara Wright  13:52 
Oh, okay, we'll talk about the pictures later. Versus, like, oh, birthdays. You mentioned that you 
had a garden party.  
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  14:05 
Yeah. 
 
Barbara Wright  14:07 
Would that only be for like, a special milestone birthday, or would that just be you-- 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  14:10 
No, every year. Grandma would have all my cousins and all the village children that I went to 
school with, they'd be there too. And, oh, that may be an interest. I don't know. To me, she just-- 
I can't believe you'd want to hear all this. 
Page 8 of 14 
 
 
Barbara Wright  14:29 
Yeah. 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  14:31 
This might be of interest to you. I was always the strange one because I spoke different to 
anybody else there. I guess I kept my American way of talking for quite a long time. Well, even 
when I went over to Ireland, I still had it, and they'd even make fun of me, or they'd think I was 
the greatest being otherwise. But, the last year I went to the school in England, they made me 
Queen of the May and I rode a little donkey. My grandfather made a crown for me, out of 
flowers, and I can remember it was so beautiful. But the only thing was, I remember it didn't fit 
down on my head. When they crowned me, they didn't push it down. So when that little pony 
started walking, the crown would falling up and down. Then it fell off, and then it fell sideways. 
But that 's why they made me Queen of the May for the last year I was going to be there, because 
we were moving to Belfast.  
 
Barbara Wright  15:40 
What was the significance of the Queen of the May?  
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  15:45 
Oh, that's a big day over there. Because now it isn't, because that's what Russia-- Russia is a-- the 
communists, that was a big day for them. So I kind of did away with First of May. But when I 
was there-- I really, to this-- don't really know what the true meaning of that was, but there was a 
maypole, and all the kids would dress up. And have you seen a maypole? They dance around it, 
and I was the queen of that. 
 
Barbara Wright  16:18 
Okay. Oh yes, ghosts. Did you, whether in any of your grandmother's homes or even in that one, 
ever encounter any ghosts? 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  16:33 
Ghosts? No, unfortunately, I'd love to in that one [laughs]. 
 
Barbara Wright  16:40 
Also, too, England is very notorious for the Celtic ancestors, and so I was wondering, was there 
any sort of, like, ancient ruins around the home, or any sort of markers? 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  16:55 
Not around this particular-- well, Charles Wesley. Methodist, started Methodism. He lived about 
four miles or five miles from here-- from there, so I've been there quite a lot of times. And of 
course, right now it's just ruins and markers. But in those days, it wasn't. Because it was a 
famous place, even in those days it was. And in this churchyard, there was lots of old graves, 
way back, 1700s, 1600s. 
 
Barbara Wright  17:40 
Page 9 of 14 
 
Oh also too, like with the church graveyard, do you know, for instance, like in some English 
churches, like the local nobility is buried in the basement, or, you know, the archbishops, or 
whatever, was that also the case with this? 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  17:55 
There are some, yes. In there, yeah. There are some in there. 
 
Barbara Wright  17:58 
Were there-- was there any sort of preferential placement of graves within the graveyard at all? 
Or, for instance, like-- if, gosh, I can't remember, like, the-- what we-- what our equivalent, like 
the potter's plot. But that's not right. Or sort of, like the-- like, the sort of hobos that didn't have a 
family would be buried and they get the most minimal marker, and say, the bottom caste of 
society would be sort of just inside that-- 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  18:06 
I know what you're talking about. But in this particular-- the villagers all can look after their 
own. There could have been a place further down in that yard that were-- I don't really-- I 
couldn't really say there was. But I know most of these villagers, they take care of anybody. And 
I tell you the truth, I don't know any what we call hobos or any derelicts ever around there. They 
were all hard-working people that I saw. Now it's possible if they were there, but I never took 
notice of them, and I never was around that, I don't know. 
 
Barbara Wright  19:19 
Like for instance, do you know-- maybe you don't know this, but, like, if a family gave birth to a 
child with Down syndrome, or if, later on, a family member, what we now call schizophrenic, 
back then, touched. Do you know what would happen to-- 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  19:20 
I never knew anything like that going on, and those days I don't even knew about it. That's 
[?only?] in the later years. When I was growing up, there was no such-- there-- I'm sure there 
was, but we never talked about it, never heard it. In fact, we never even talked about sicknesses. 
At all. Just, you know, you just grew up. I don't know. You never talked about it. 
 
Barbara Wright  19:33 
Just kind of, I'm glad you brought that up. Brings a whole new vein. Was there-- were there any 
sort of superstitions within the, you know, like walking under a ladder, black cats? 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  20:23 
Oh yes. But I think most of us, like me, I just laughed about it, but I still did it. I mean, it wasn't a 
great big deal. It was just a game, really. If you saw a lot of you don't go under that, something 
might drop on it. Which is true when you think about it, somebody's up there in the ladder, 
what's knowing that it's going to come down anyway. 
 
Barbara Wright  20:51 
So you-- you didn't know of any sort of a flu, like a sort of a bug that may have swept through 
the town, and may have killed a few people like-- 
Page 10 of 14 
 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  21:00 
Not in my time, no. Not in my time. And I don't remember ever hearing about it in this particular 
place, but there were a lot of them... Might turn this thing-- or is it Ireland? I can't say now. In 
the back of my mind, there's something-- there was a flu epidemic or something. I don't think 
they even called it flu. There was, like, measles too. Sometimes it'd be-- especially in school 
kids, there'd be an epidemic of that. But I never heard of anybody dying from it. 
 
Barbara Wright  21:41 
Right. Was polio at all what-- 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  21:45 
Oh, yes. 
 
Barbara Wright  21:46 
Okay. 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  21:46 
Yeah. 
 
Barbara Wright  21:47 
Do you-- how many people within the village were stricken with it? 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  21:51 
It wasn't there at that time. The first time I heard of polio was when we were in Northern Ireland, 
Belfast, Northern Ireland. And I would be about... In my teens? Yeah, I'd have to be in my teens. 
 
Barbara Wright  22:10 
What sort of chores did you have while you were in-- 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  22:13 
With my grandparents?  
 
Barbara Wright  22:16 
Mm-hmm.  
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  22:16 
Oh, none, none.  
 
Barbara Wright  22:17 
Did you-- 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  22:17 
I told you I was spoiled. 
 
Barbara Wright  22:26 
Page 11 of 14 
 
Did you have any servants in the house?  
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  22:28 
No, no. Grandma did it all herself. And I don't know to this day how she did it. She was always 
busy, but she had time for everybody. 
 
Barbara Wright  22:38 
When your mother lived there as well, did she help your grandmother? 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  22:41 
Oh yes, yes. Well, and I think I told you about her being a dressmaker. 
 
Barbara Wright  22:45 
Mm-hmm. 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  22:45 
Okay, she did her dressmaking there, too.  
 
Barbara Wright  22:47 
Oh, okay, great. Great. Let's see, just kind of clearing up a few details here. Like, for instance, 
what would be the usual family meal? 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  22:58 
Hmm. Well, generally, on a Sunday, it was roast beef, and Yorkshire pudding, and roast potatoes 
done in these big ranges, you know, stoked with coal, and that's what she cooked in the oven. 
And there'd be apple pies, plum pies, blackberry pies, I think that was available-- I mean, what 
was in season, that's what it would be. Cakes. Oh, she used to make some beautiful fruitcakes. 
 
Barbara Wright  23:41 
Describe the fruitcake for me. 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  23:43 
It's-- well it'd be she'd make a fruitcake of just currants, or another time it would be just raisins, 
or especially at Christmas time, she'd make it of all candied peel, and raisins, fruit. And I still 
make it to this day, I got her recipe, and I still use it. 
 
Barbara Wright  24:05 
Do you have any sort of other family recipes that you still use today?  
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  24:09 
The Yorkshire pudding, I make that. When I ever did start learning to cook, when I-- my poor 
husband, married somebody who couldn't even cook. 
 
Barbara Wright  24:26 
Was your mother as good as cook as your grandma?  
 
Page 12 of 14 
 
Barbara Wright  24:28 
Do they even have measuring cups at all?  
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  24:28 
Oh yeah. She got that from Grandma, yeah. They never measured anything. Add this, handful of 
this, handful of that, pinch of this. No measure anything. 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  24:45 
Oh yes. Oh yeah.  
 
Barbara Wright  24:46 
Let's talk about your mother as a dressmaker. How does she become a dressmaker? 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  24:56 
That I could not tell you. I would think it's because that's all they did, those young girls in those 
days. They had either crocheted or sewed, you know, there was no TV or-- just a radio is all they 
had. Well, they didn't have-- did they have a radio when she was born? I don't know whether she 
did or not. But that's all they did, and they sewed, or read, or crocheted, knit. Because in those 
days, girls couldn't do much of anything-- or, well, and she never helped Grandpa. I knew that. 
But a lot of the women did, they helped their husbands out in the fields and did all that kind of 
[?another narrative?]. 
 
Barbara Wright  25:46 
Before we start going to the dressmaking yet again, what sort of community activities do you 
remember being there? Like, for instance, like whether it be a quilting bee with-- amongst 
women, or, like Fall Harvest celebrations? 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  26:01 
No. We'd have harvest celebrations, especially in the church, they'd get together, I guess. But I 
wasn't-- I don't remember that, because the only time we really went over to my grandparents 
from Belfast, was during the summer. So there'd be really nothing harvest-- Oh, there'd be 
harvest. Yeah, that's right, when they be bringing in the har-- the wheat and the hay. I used to 
have-- they had a neighbor, was a farmer. He raised racehorses, and I'd go there and help 
[?black?]. I mean, we just played around, but we did-- supposed to been helping, putting the hay 
out in the lofts and stuff like that. I remember doing that, liking that. Loved those kind of things, 
and riding the old horses, the plyhorse-- workhorses, rode bareback on them. But they did have 
harvest time, especially at church. They bring all their fruit at harvest time.  
 
Barbara Wright  27:22 
Do you remember if they would, for instance, like, bring in any sort of the music, and what type 
of music it would be if they were dancing at all? 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  27:30 
No, I don't remember that. The only dancing I remember there is 'round the May Pole. That's the 
only time I can remember. 
 
Page 13 of 14 
 
Barbara Wright  27:44 
Okay, it's your mother's dressmaking. So then I take it, since she was a royal dressmaker, she 
was just sort of to the local nobility there? 
 
Barbara Wright  27:54 
So I take it then, because I can't remember Mrs. Churchill's maiden name, but I do remember that 
she-- 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  27:54 
Yeah. And she sewed-- I know remember her saying she was so proud of it, sewing in Mrs. 
Churchill's wedding outfit. Yeah, she was so proud of that. I heard that quite a lot. And a lot of 
that was done by hand. It was silk, and the machines, I guess, just wouldn't take that real fine 
material. So she'd do that by hand, and she just did it so quick. She did quite good. [Inaudible]. 
She was great. 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  28:15 
I don't know either. 
 
Barbara Wright  28:33 
Okay, did-- she did come from, no-- you know, a very noble-- 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  28:36 
Nobility, yeah. 
 
Barbara Wright  28:38 
So then that-- then her family, Mrs. Churchill's family, came from that region there? 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  28:44 
Mm-hmm.  
 
Barbara Wright  28:44 
Okay, and was that also too, the same family that your grandfather was the royal gardener for? 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  28:48 
No, no. 
 
Barbara Wright  28:48 
Does your mother have any recollections of Mrs. Churchill that she passed on? 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  28:57 
Oh, I'm sure she did. I don't-- she never told me that, but she just told me that's-- now, whether 
she met her or not, I doubt it. She just sewed on the dresses, but there would be a head-person or 
somebody special to do the fitting, and then they bring that to Mother to do. Mother and other 
people, you know, there's quite a number of them. 
 
Barbara Wright  29:24 
Page 14 of 14 
 
Within the community, where do you think that your family stood, sort of in the, you know, in 
the class structure: middle class, upper-middle class, affluent, or? 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  29:35 
I know what you mean. I hated that. Middle class, I suppose, because the high class was the 
other, I guess middle class. 
 
Barbara Wright  29:50 
You mentioned that you hated it. Why did you-- why did you hate it? 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  29:54 
I don't like those kind of things. Don't like the division. Never have, and it's one thing I did not 
like when we went over there to live. The distinction. 
 
Barbara Wright  30:06 
So then you-- when you went to school, did you go to school with any of the other children's-- 
nobility children?  
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  30:13 
Oh, yeah. They all went to that one school. 
 
Barbara Wright  30:15 
Okay. And did they recieve-- 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  30:17 
That's the only school there was. 
 
Barbara Wright  30:19 
Did they receive preferential treatment at all? 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  30:22 
No. Oh no. No, no.  
 
Barbara Wright  30:22 
Okay. 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  30:25 
And I don't remember them ever being in a clique, like you hear so much over here. You're in a 
certain clique. I don't remember that at all. I was accepted by every one of them. 
 
Barbara Wright  30:38 
Did they ever-- like when they had parties-- [inaudible] switch tapes. I'm going to stop now. 